The Vaccine War

Last night’s Frontline on PBS (which can be viewed in its entirety), titled “The Vaccine War”, showed the conflict in America raging over whether or not to vaccinated children.

It pitted establishment: doctors, big pharma, NIH, and the CDC against the small guy: people who think vaccines are harming children at unacceptable rates.

The topic really comes down to some anecdotal evidence against current medical advice.  Being a scientist, I’m sure you can guess where I come down on this debate.  I can think for myself and do not make important, life decisions based on rumor or Internet gossip.

The main argument by the anti-vaccine camp seemed to be the possibility of autism being a side effect of childhood vaccinations.  Frontline pointed out that autism is typically diagnosed in young children.  One of the reasons being development delays are a symptom of some autism patients.  Vaccines are done in young children, so it’s easy to see a correlation.   Of course, correlation doesn’t equal causation; meaning as was said in the show, “just because a rooster crows and the sun comes up doesn’t mean the rooster caused the sun to rise.”

Jenny McCarthy, actress and parent to an autistic son, said that within 12 weeks after the MMR (a vaccine that prevents 3 different diseases) her son showed signs that something was wrong.  Which is funny, since in 2007 she told Oprah, “…the nurse gave [Evan] the shot,” she says. “And soon thereafter—boom—the soul’s gone from his eyes.”  So which is it?  Instantly or 12 weeks?  Okay, so Jenny’s a mom–a hot mom–but not a scientist.  Since she isn’t a scientist, we really probably shouldn’t even be listening to her.  (It’s kind of like taking environmental advice from Al Gore.)  Although she does say she’d rather take the measles than the autism.

Measles is a horrible virus.  People DIE from measles.  And diphtheria, mumps, German measles (rubella), pertussis, even chicken pox.  All of which are pretty rare in the United States.  Because we have such a high vaccination rate.

The show features a group of moms from Ashland, Oregon who are adamantly opposed to vaccinating their children.  Again, these aren’t scientists, just moms.  Asked if they would feel any responsibility for getting another child sick, one not able to get vaccinated (for example, because they are too young), and writer Jennifer Margulis sternly said no.  What about helping to create an epidemic?  She said if vaccines worked, it wouldn’t spread.

That’s pretty foolish thinking.  If vaccines work, but not enough people get them, infection will spread.  Frontline presented a case in which a little girl, who was not vaccinated, got sick in San Diego when exposed to the measles virus a classmate of her older brother was carrying.

Margulis goes on to ask if polio is so rare in the U.S., why are we still vaccinating against it.  She must not understand that just because it’s not common in the U.S. that doesn’t mean someone can’t bring polio over on a plane.  Viruses don’t respect political borders.  Apparently she thinks we keep vaccinating ad infinitum just to make money.  Guess what?  Small pox has been completely eradicated in the wild.  And we don’t vaccinate for it anymore.  Questioning vaccines based on rarity of diseases is really Margulis’ fatal argument.

Not the only one, though, as Margulis says she thinks germs are good and people have been getting sick for 200,000 years.  I’m guessing she hasn’t had even an introduction to immunology.  There are a few simple ways to get immunity to something, 1) maternal (a passive immunity in the womb or from breastfeeding), 2) infection (an active immunity from experiencing the invader first-hand), and 3) immunization (an active immunity from having antigen(s) directly introduced).  That’s right, your body’s reaction to a vaccine works the same way as its reaction to getting the infection naturally.  Well, you know, with a much smaller chance of side effects… like dieing.

Frontline went onto show that the link to autism is not scientifically valid.  JB Handley, businessman-turned-anti-vaccine activist who founded Generation Rescue, doesn’t buy it.  He said vaccines cause brain damage and that autism is form of brain damage.  Yikes!  Autistic brains may be different, but it’s not induced by trauma like too many jabs to the head by late-80’s era Mike Tyson.

Most anti-vaccine activists pointed to thimerosal as the cause of autism.  Thimerosal was removed from vaccines before Jenny McCarthy’s autistic child was born.  Many pointed to the MMR.  Despite popular misconception, the MMR never contained thimerosal, so this was a new hypothesis.  Frontline showed that studies proved this link was also not scientifically valid.  Now opponents seem to be going to the idea that it’s just the sheer number of vaccines in such a short period of time.  Pediatricians and anti-vacciners Dr Robert Sears and Dr Jay Gordon (you can read his thoughts on the show) seem to currently be in this boat.  Of course, they don’t have a shred of evidence to support this theory.

Let’s recap:  Does thimerosal cause autism? No. Does the MMR cause autism? No. Do vaccinations cause autism? No.  Does Dr Robert Searsalternative vaccine schedule have any evidence to support the reasoning that his schedule is more effective at preventing autism than the CDC’s? No.

What does it mean?  First, there’s no reason to think because you skip the vaccinations that your kid will not have autism.  Autism rates are the same in both vaccinated and unvaccinated populations.  Second, there’s a reason we have vaccines: they work.  Actually, there’s more than one.  Not only do they work, they prevent child deaths.  Third, you have to be okay with not only your child being infected with a serious, potentially life-threatening disease, but you have to be able to sleep at night knowing your child can infect someone who can’t be vaccinated.  If having the blood of innocent children on your hands is okay with you, then don’t worry about skipping the vaccines.

I received the standard vaccines when I was a kid.  And so will my kid.  Because at the end of the day science trumps speculation.

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8 Responses

  1. I have badge envy.

    Great summary of the program.

    I do wish that Frontline had included some interviews with adults with autism and parents of children with autism who reject the autism-vaccine… well I have to say belief, because it isn’t even a hypothesis.

    Does Dr Robert Sears‘ alternative vaccine schedule have any evidence to support the reasoning that his schedule is more effective at preventing autism than the CDC’s? No.

    Nor does Sears present evidence that his “alternative” vaccine promotes either the individual child’s health

    Oh, and Jenny McCarthy didn’t like the program, either.

    Short version: they didn’t tell our siiiiiiiiide!! They’re wroooooong!!!!

  2. It is truly frustrating to read posts like yours. They are so misinformed.

    “The topic really comes down to some anecdotal evidence against current medical advice. ”

    Yes… but only if you take Frontline at it’s word. And you shouldn’t. Because the hours of interviews they did with doctors who believe that vaccine are doing damage, and all of their scientific arguments on the cutting room floor. And AGAIN try to make this into parents v. science, instead of a growing number of parents and scientists against the entrenched medical establishment with all their bias and blinders and CYA.

    “Of course, correlation doesn’t equal causation”

    Which would be a sufficient argument to set aside this debate if the only thing vaccine safety advocates were arguing was temporal association between vaccination and autistic regression. They aren’t. That is merely the place the argument starts. Yet it is presented as if that is all the argument there is.

    “within 12 weeks after the MMR (a vaccine that prevents 3 different diseases) her son showed signs that something was wrong”

    Vaccine reactions, especially those involving the immune system, can take weeks for external symptoms to evolve, and when they are behavioral, weeks or months for parents to realize that that something is actually “wrong” rather than a child just going through a phase or feeling bad. Especially because when they raise concerns with their pediatricians, they are almost universally told, “Just wait and see, I am sure you will be fine”.

    Guillain Barre, a severe paralitic autoimmune disease, covered by the government’s vaccine injury program, that begins 5 WEEKS post vaccination.

    When my son regressed six years ago, I initially suspected the Hep B shot. I read the vaccine package insert which told me that Guillain Barre was one of its adverse reactions, I went to my pediatrician to ask him this question: “If the Hepatitis B vaccine can cause Guillain Barre, a disorder in which the immune system attacks the central nervous system, they why can’t it cause autism, a disorder in which the immune system attacks the central nervous system”? He didn’t have answers to any of my questions, and frankly told me that he just does what the AAP tells him and to go ask them.

    And I did. And I found that AAP does not answer questions like mine. Nor does CDC or HHS or VICP. And then I found there are thousands of unanswered questions. And it seems to me that you don’t even know what any of these questions are.

    Additionally, when the brain damage is a result of seizure activity caused by vaccination (and in Evan’s case he was having both grand mal seizures and seizures that no one could detect, until his mother found him dead in his crib one day [paramedics revived him]) then again, that seizure activity can be happening for quite some time, doing brain damage, before anyone notices.

    Many parents report a child being vaccinated, developing a fever, sleeping for 18 hours straight, waking up and never being the same. Were they seizing in their cribs while mom thought they were sleeping? This is important because in 1994, the Clinton administration removed a vaccine injury from the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program table of neurological damage from post vaccination seizures. For no reason. No new research, no illuminating arguments. Just hit the delete button and hoped no one would notice. Donna Shelela has never had to explain why she did that.

    “Measles is a horrible virus. People DIE from measles.”

    And people from measles vaccine. Please check the VCIP table of compensatable injuries and not how many times the word “Death” appears as a known out come of a vaccine administration.

    Vacccines save lives. And they kill people. And they maim children. None of this is disputed. The question is how often to they actually save lives, how often to they actually kill people, and how many children are maimed. And despite the rising public outcry, there is no good research into these questions, because public health has overstated the benefits and understated the risks of vaccination, and why in the world would they spend their own cash to expose that they have been lying to the public?

    “The show features a group of moms from Ashland, Oregon who are adamantly opposed to vaccinating their children.”

    Wrong. And this is why you should not believe Frontline.

    Jennifer Margulis was contacted yesterday by a colleague of mine. It turns out that Jennifer selectively vaccinates her child. But Frontline lied and said she had vaccinated children. They all cut her comments to make it seem like she was completely vaccine. So just erase whatever you wrote about the Ashland women, because you have no idea what they actually said in that conversation. You only got lies and sound bites.

    FRONTLINE LIED.

    You are basing your understanding of vaccine damage on easily disprovable lies. Please take some time and vet the sources you are basing your “scientific” opinion on. This episode of frontline was paid for by individuals and corporations who would be litigants in vaccine damage. Brought to you by a generous grant from the Macarthur Foundation, whose board members are also on the boards of the CDC, The CDC Foundation, DOD, GW School of Public Health and Kaiser Permanente. Is frontline going to produce a show that can actually land it’s underwriters on the witness stand?

    MF also has a board member who is a director at Johnson & Johnson, who is currently being sued by parents for thimerosal containing Rhogam shots. Do you honestly think that they will give you unbiased and balanced information?

    “Thimerosal was removed from vaccines before Jenny McCarthy’s autistic child was born. ”

    No it wasn’t.

    My son was born with in a few weeks of hers. Spring of 2002. And he received mercury containing vaccines.

    Low dose mercury vaccines didn’t even begin production until 2001, and there was no recall of the full dose mercury vaccines. Those of us who were paying attention and demanding to read the boxes and package inserts before allowing our children to get vaccinated were finding full dose mercury shots on doctors shelves with expiration dates as late ad 2007. And many of the docs didn’t even know they were giving them until mom’s showed them the packaging.

    My own idiot pediatrician was horribly offended when I asked if his vaccines had mercury. “They don’t make those anymore!” I apologized for offending him. Then he injected my premature baby, just out of the NICU, with a full dose mercury Hep B shot before he had even reached his due date. And I boldly call him an idiot because this was in the fall of 2000, the year before lower dose mercury vaccines even went into production. And I choose to believe he was an idiot rather than a liar that purposely violated my right to informed consent.

    And, of course, flu and tetanus shots still have a full 25 micrograms of mercury in them.

    Many pointed to the MMR. Frontline showed that studies proved this link was also not scientifically valid.

    Frontline lied. (see below)

    “Of course, they don’t have a shred of evidence to support this theory.”

    Please add “that I know of”, because this is an untrue statement.

    Here is a list of research I have been compiling that is evidence to support that theory. It is by no means comprehensive, but there are about 40 studies there.

    http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/2007/06/no-evidence-of-any-link.html

    “Does thimerosal cause autism? No. Does the MMR cause autism? No. Do vaccinations cause autism? No. ”

    These are scientifically unsupportable statements.

    First MMR has not been sufficiently studied to be counted out of autism causation. Second thimerosal has not been legitimately studied at all.

    But let’s say for the sake of the argument that both had been evaluated completely and been counted out of causation.

    There are 16 vaccines on the childhood schedule. MMR does not cause autism so vaccines don’t cause autism? Do I need to point out the intellectual disaster of that assertion? Because MMR is the ONLY vaccine that has been looked at. (and again… quite badly)

    There are hundreds of vaccine ingredients used in the childhood schedule. Thimerosal does not cause autism so none of the vaccine ingredients cause autism? Do you understand why parents like me are so disgusted with the reasoning of writers like you?

    That isn’t science!

    And I am going to be very very assertive here… because this point needs to be driven home:

    “Autism rates are the same in both vaccinated and unvaccinated populations.”

    THIS IS A BIG FAT GIANT LIE. There is absolutely no research comparing autism rates in vaccinated and unvaccinated populations.

    NONE!

    Parents and some physicians have been screaming to high heaven for this. Carolyn Maloney D-NY introduced a bill into congress to FORCE NIH to do the research, and it has languished for three years.

    Jenny McCarthy and David Kirby embarassed the head of the AAP, David Taylor on the Larry King show by asking him on live TV if he and AAP supported the Maloney bill… AND HE STAMMERED LIKE HE HAD BEEN CAUGHT WITH HIS PANTS DOWN! Because he and AAP don’t want the research done!

    So please, either cite your research in vaxxed v. unvaxxed populations or retract that statement.

    In fact I challenge you to take this piece that you have written, and cite the research for every assertion in it. And I believe you will be shocked to find that there is almost nothing to back up the line that CDC et al is trying to sell.

  3. And please allow me to offer you two arguments as to why public health can not legitimately claim that vaccines don’t cause autism.

    First:

    If vaccine cannot cause autism, then vaccine could not have caused my son’s autism.

    At 18 months of age, my son was vaccinated with DTaP, Hep B, HIB, Pnumo and Polio and regressed into autism.

    So for one to argue that his vaccines did not cause his autism, they would need to cite research that examined:

    The relationship between DTaP vaccine and autism
    The relationship between Hep B vaccine and autism
    The relationship between HIB vaccine and autism
    The relationship between Pnumo vaccine and autism
    The relationship between Polio vaccine and autism
    The relationship between the simultanious administration of DTaP, Hep B, HIB, Pnumo and Polio vaccines and autism

    But there is no such research (as there is no research between vaxed and unvaxxed populations. I am always looking, so please let me know if you find any.)

    (Note that my son was administered neither MMR nor any thimerosal containing vaccines at 18 months, so none of Frontline’s arguments apply to him)

    No one can argue from the science that my son’s autism was not caused by his vaccines, and because my son’s autism is a subset of all autism, no one can legitimately argue that the science is settled and vaccines don’t cause autism.

    Second:

    the US Department of Health and Human Services, Vaccine Injury Compensation Program lists on its table of known vaccine injures, an adverse event they call vaccine induced “encephalopathy”. It is an outcome of both MMR and DTaP.

    http://www.hrsa.gov/Vaccinecompensation/table.htm

    The symptoms include:

    “(1) Decreased or absent response to environment (responds, if at all, only to loud voice or painful stimuli);
    (2) Decreased or absent eye contact (does not fix gaze upon family members or other individuals); or
    (3) Inconsistent or absent responses to external stimuli (does not recognize familiar people or things).”

    This is a description of a child with “autism”. This is a description of my son following his DTaP vaccine, for which he was diagnosed with “autism”.

    Note that there are no instructions to rule out “autism” before diagnosing “encephalopathy” and that DSM includes no instruction to rule out vaccine “encephalopathy” before diagnosing with “autism”.

    Because in many children, like my son and Hannah Poling and Baily Banks and Madison Hiatt and the dozens (hundreds?) of other children paid by the federal government, they are the same thing.

    Also note that seizures are common feature of “encephalopathy” and that around 30% children with “autism” have seizures.

    Note that the thousands of parents asking HHS to explain this turned into tens of thousands following the press conference held by Hannah Poling’s parents. Note that CDC Chief Julie Gerberding made a fool of herself by going on CNN and trying to convince the public that vaccines both CAN and CANNOT cause “autism”.

    http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/2008/03/julie-gerberding-admits-on-cnn-that.html

    Note that Jule Gerberding left her post to become the head of vaccines for Merck (who makes MMR that damaged Poling and Banks), and that CDC and HHS and AAP don’t talk about this any more. And don’t give interviews that they can’t control any more.

    Note that Frontline didn’t mention any of this.

    If you believe you have explanations for any of this, please let me know.

  4. I just re read what I posted, and apparently one paragraph was spell checked into nonsense oblivion. Correcting:

    “Jennifer Margulis was contacted yesterday by a colleague of mine. It turns out that Jennifer selectively vaccinates her children. But Frontline lied and said she had unvaccinated children. They all cut her comments to make it seem like she was completely anti-vaccine. So just erase whatever you wrote about the Ashland women, because you have no idea what they actually said in that conversation. You only got lies and sound bites.”

  5. @Liz, thanks for the comment. I would have liked to see this a 2-hour program, as I felt there was certainly more to be said and would have liked to see more “science” the other side had to present.

    Right after I published this, I read that post of Jenny’s on HuffPo. (I actually like her as a celebrity and follow her on Twitter.) My response to Jenny’s rant is if your condition for appearing was for Dr Jay Gordon to appear on the show with you and Frontline cut him out, sue the filmmakers. :-/

    @Ginger, thanks for your comment as well! Make no mistake, I am not convinced the vaccines-cause-autism hypothesis is correct, but I absolutely value and appreciate dissenting opinions. As long as comments remain civil, of course. 🙂

    It will take me a little while to compile a reply, as you had a lot to say. But I’m working on it. Thanks again!

  6. @Ginger,
    I had spent a lot of time on a nice response, but alas when I bumped into a PDF on your site, my browser hung. No, I’m not blaming you 😛 The fact that I had 40 tabs open probably didn’t help. 😉 …So here I go again…

    To start, I’d like to point out that I think autism, being a spectrum, is not the result of a single factor. I think it absolutely has a genetic component. I think there likely is some environmental factor that influences the expression of those genetic factors. I also believe that part of the reason for the “explosion” of autism is in the diagnostics and at this point there isn’t a way to test what previous generations’ rates of autism were.

    (correlation doesn’t equal causation) would be a sufficient argument to set aside this debate if the only thing vaccine safety advocates were arguing was temporal association between vaccination and autistic regression. They aren’t. That is merely the place the argument starts. Yet it is presented as if that is all the argument there is.

    No one is suggesting autism is temporal in nature. Correlation is the only evidence so far. Many of your studies show correlation. Correlation is sufficient to base a hypothesis and warrant further research. At this point, research suggests correlation doesn’t equal causation in this case.

    Vaccine reactions, especially those involving the immune system, can take weeks for external symptoms to evolve…

    The point I was making here was merely that Jenny’s story changed.

    If the Hepatitis B vaccine can cause Guillain Barre, a disorder in which the immune system attacks the central nervous system, they why can’t it cause autism, a disorder in which the immune system attacks the central nervous system?

    Research just published last week shows maternal infection increases rates of autism. But still, this only accounts for 1.5% of all cases. Which leads me to believe that there may very well be a cause-effect relationship in some cases of autism, but the bigger issue is what causes those other 98.5%. If 1/150 is your risk of autism, than infection-caused-autism plummets to ~1/10,000.

    …brain damage is a result of seizure…

    Seizures causing autism would be completely different than vaccines causing autism. Not all seizures will result in autism the way not all vaccines will result in seizure. Currently, for example, the MMR is reported to cause seizure in about 1 in 3,000.

    And people from measles vaccine…. how often to they actually save lives, how often to they actually kill people, and how many children are maimed…

    Measles kills 1-2 per 1,000, whereas the rarest complication the CDC keeps data on for the MMR is <1 per 1 million for “serious allergic reaction”. “Deafness, Long-term seizures, coma, or lowered consciousness, Permanent brain damage” are listed as more rare and “experts cannot be sure whether they are caused by the vaccine”. Notice death is not listed, so at best it’s exceedingly rare.

    why in the world would they spend their own cash to expose that they have been lying to the public?

    Advances in science don’t prove the previous scientific thought was a lie. Did someone have a hidden agenda that kept the geocentric universe in popular opinion for centuries in Europe?

    It turns out that Jennifer (Margulis) selectively vaccinates her child.

    If she’s so concerned with the vaccine-autism link, why selectively vaccinate? She’s playing the lottery with her child’s health. She’s betting she chooses the “safe” vaccines.

    This episode of frontline was paid for by…

    I’m under the impression that sponsors typically sponsor an entire season. Is that not the case? Frontline has won many awards; are you calling into question both the award and it’s organizers?

    Additionally, the writer/director and coproducer seem to have solid credentials.

    My son was born with in a few weeks of hers. Spring of 2002. And he received mercury containing vaccines.

    You shouldn’t have. This is *almost* malpractice. The only thing keeping it from being so is that thimerosal-containing vaccines weren’t proven to be a problem and so weren’t recalled.

    And, of course, flu and tetanus shots still have a full 25 micrograms of mercury in them.

    Not all mercury is created equal.

    Many pointed to the MMR. Frontline showed that studies proved this link was also not scientifically valid.

    Frontline lied.

    Based on this journal article, I don’t see how you can claim a lie.

    Here is a list of research…
    I see a whole bunch of correlation. Which is compelling. But we’re looking for causation.

    These are scientifically unsupportable statements.

    Same claim, same rebuttal.

    There are 16 vaccines on the childhood schedule. MMR does not cause autism so vaccines don’t cause autism?

    I didn’t pick the MMR argument. If you don’t know which of the 16 it is, but you’re convinced it’s onen of them, you can’t say “vaccines cause autism”. It takes time to study these things. Meanwhile, each parent has to decide for themselves the amount of risk they are comfortable with. Does HFCS make you so vocal? That’s also a personal choice.

    There is absolutely no research comparing autism rates in vaccinated and unvaccinated populations.

    There is but you HAVE to look at epidimeology, because these studies would be difficult to perform because of the likely differences among these 3 groups in health care seeking behavior and the ethics of experimentally studying children who have not received vaccines. You can’t give people HIV to determine if it actually causes AIDS either.

    So please, either cite your research in vaxxed v. unvaxxed populations or retract that statement.

    New England Journal of Medicine.

    cite the research for every assertion in it
    Done. 🙂 Of course I cited the CDC in there, and I do see the irony in trying to convince you with CDC data.

    At 18 months of age, my son was vaccinated with DTaP, Hep B, HIB, Pnumo and Polio and regressed into autism.

    It may not mean much to you, but I’m sorry you and your child have experienced this. ❤

    18 months is also in the window that autism is typically diagnosed. This is another correalation/causation issue. There isn't any evidence to to prove the vaccines caused the regression at this point.

    they would need to cite research that examined… (DTP, Hep-B, HI-B, Pnumo, Polio)

    To my knowledge, this research still needs to be done. I’m not claiming the autism question has been answered. I’m merely saying there’s no proven link. These things are being studied as the public dictates. First it was MMR and thimerosal. Now other studies can be done.

    No one can argue from the science that my son’s autism was not caused by his vaccines

    At this point no one can definitively argue anything except that it wasn’t from the MMR or thimerosal. Not knowing you personally, obvious I can’t tell you anything about your son’s autism.

    …encephalopathy…

    Pneumonia, the common cold, and influenza all have similar symptoms. It doesn’t mean they are all the same. Likewise you can get encephalitis from lots of things. It specifically mentions seizures sometimes causing those symptoms, as well as infection or genetics. Yet seizure is not one of the qualified injuries for any of those vaccines you mention according to the table.

    Note that CDC Chief Julie Gerberding made a fool of herself by going on CNN and trying to convince the public that vaccines both CAN and CANNOT cause “autism”.

    Vaccines causing autism would at best be in a subset of all autism cases. As I pointed out yearlier, autism is likely caused by many things, including mother’s infection during pregnancy. That accounted for 1.5% of autism cases. The other 98%? What if vaccines are responsible for another 10%? That makes the risk of autism from vaccine 1/1,500. Does that mean parents shouldn’t vaccinate their children? That’s a choice for each parent to make. But as of this writing: the evidence available shows no correlation between vaccines and the rate of autism.

  7. Ginger,

    With a master’s in the field of psychology, you of all people should know the malleability of human memory. You should also have a halfway decent handle on the various heuristics we tend to use, which can often lead us down the wrong path. You didn’t always believe vaccines were responsible.

  8. Go, Mike, go! Thank you for being another sensible voice concerning vaccines! I am autistic and when i was first confronted with the idea that vaccines might cause autism therefore we should not vaccinate; i was highly offended that people thought that getting terrible diseases is better than risking being ‘me’ [autistic]. Why do people hate ‘me’ so much?

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